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   1 17:10:22 *	bdbaddog (n=chatzill@adsl-71-142-86-81.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #scons
   2 17:18:36 *	Jason_at_intel (n=chatzill@bementil-116.illinois.prairieinet.net) has joined #scons
   3 17:27:26 <bdbaddog>	Hi Jason
   4 17:27:43 *	garyo-home (n=chatzill@209-6-158-38.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com) has joined #scons
   5 17:27:59 *	GregNoel is no longer marked as being away
   6 17:31:33 <garyo-home>	hi
   7 17:32:00 <Jason_at_intel>	hi
   8 17:32:09 <Jason_at_intel>	sorry was away from the computer
   9 17:32:23 *	stevenknight (n=stevenkn@67.218.104.94) has joined #scons
  10 17:32:30 <garyo-home>	big group here tonight, looks like!
  11 17:32:36 *	stevenknight is now known as sk
  12 17:32:48 <sk>	hey all
  13 17:32:55 <Jason_at_intel>	hi
  14 17:33:02 <sk>	hey Jason_at_inetl
  15 17:33:54 <garyo-home>	Hi Steven
  16 17:34:25 <GregNoel>	Hi, guys...
  17 17:34:30 <garyo-home>	Hi, Greg.
  18 17:34:45 <GregNoel>	Steven has only ~45 minutes on the shuttle, but can connect again after he gets home (a break of ~15 minutes, he says).  That's not enough time to do all the issues and then discuss the 1.3 plans.  (I'd like to see what's happening, as I have a gap coming up next week when I could spent full time on the changes between 1.3 and 2.0.)
  19 17:34:45 <GregNoel>	I propose that we go as far as we can with the issues, but break when Steven is maybe 15 minutes from his stop and discuss 1.3 plans so that they won't get dropped.
  20 17:34:45 <GregNoel>	Then we can decide if we want to reconvene when he gets home or leave the remaining issues for next time.
  21 17:34:45 <GregNoel>	Comments?
  22 17:35:14 <garyo-home>	ok
  23 17:35:47 <sk>	worksforme
  24 17:36:14 <garyo-home>	ok, shall we dive in?
  25 17:36:16 <garyo-home>	148?
  26 17:36:39 <sk>	consensus 1.3+doc, p3, bill?
  27 17:36:52 <garyo-home>	sure.  Bill, I like your text in the bug report.
  28 17:36:54 <GregNoel>	done; glad it's not me
  29 17:38:07 <GregNoel>	633
  30 17:38:23 <sk>	633:  consensus 2.x p3 Lukas Erlingen
  31 17:38:27 <garyo-home>	633 2.x p3 lukas
  32 17:38:32 <GregNoel>	done
  33 17:38:36 <sk>	790:
  34 17:38:50 <garyo-home>	bill already emailed OP, great!
  35 17:38:57 <sk>	go bill!
  36 17:39:02 <sk>	for classification?
  37 17:39:11 <sk>	how about future, p3, +MinGW keyword?
  38 17:39:27 <garyo-home>	works4me
  39 17:39:29 <GregNoel>	I'll agree
  40 17:39:48 <sk>	done
  41 17:39:50 <sk>	797:
  42 17:39:51 <garyo-home>	797, 3.x p3 draft choice
  43 17:40:03 <sk>	done
  44 17:40:12 <GregNoel>	done
  45 17:40:30 <sk>	(browser lag...)
  46 17:40:49 <sk>	(someone carry on)
  47 17:40:50 <garyo-home>	798: hard to warn in this case.
  48 17:41:03 <garyo-home>	I think doc's the best we can do.
  49 17:41:24 <GregNoel>	if the docs already say it's a global namespace, close as invalid
  50 17:41:39 <garyo-home>	I don't think the doc is that clear on it.
  51 17:42:10 <sk>	agree w/documenting this explicit case
  52 17:42:17 <sk>	GregNoel is technically correct
  53 17:42:30 <sk>	but not everyone immediately grasps that implication of "global namespace"
  54 17:42:35 <sk>	and I'm in favor of trying to be helpful
  55 17:42:29 <GregNoel>	then 2.1 p2 Bill?
  56 17:42:49 <garyo-home>	Bill, if you want help w/ verbiage I can pitch in
  57 17:43:02 <sk>	2.1 p2 bill, if it's ok w/him
  58 17:43:50 <garyo-home>	(bill?)
  59 17:43:59 <sk>	bdbaddog:  ping
  60 17:44:08 <Jason_at_intel>	sk: global is as in global or global in environment
  61 17:44:46 <garyo-home>	global as in global.
  62 17:45:02 <sk>	Export("env") exports to a global namespace
  63 17:44:59 <Jason_at_intel>	thanks
  64 17:45:01 <garyo-home>	Let's just assign it to him & move on, he volunteered in the ssheet.
  65 17:45:10 <sk>	done
  66 17:45:10 <GregNoel>	done
  67 17:45:41 <garyo-home>	804 seems to have mutated far from what I originally reported.
  68 17:46:22 <sk>	804:  research, not me
  69 17:46:24 <garyo-home>	I don't know what a LazyAction is, but I can guess it gets in the way of this use case.
  70 17:46:49 <garyo-home>	3.x p4 draft pick??  Unless Bill is interested?
  71 17:47:07 <GregNoel>	I'm not seeing any consensus; bypass?
  72 17:47:08 <sk>	garyo-home:  there's a special hack in Action.py that looks for an action like '$SINGLE_VARIABLE_NAME'
  73 17:47:38 <garyo-home>	that explains why all the workarounds work, then.
  74 17:47:39 <sk>	if it finds that, it instantiates a special class that delays instantiation of the actual Action object until it's used
  75 17:48:33 <garyo-home>	I see, it's so the var can be lazy-evaled as late as possible.
  76 17:48:17 <sk>	what i'd really like is for us to revisit the underlying problem this was introduced to solve way back when because we have a lot more functionality now and could probably get rid of the hack by providing a transition to a less hacky solution
  77 17:48:38 <GregNoel>	No time here; bypass until next time?
  78 17:48:44 <garyo-home>	ok w/ me
  79 17:49:02 <sk>	okay, defer
  80 17:49:06 <GregNoel>	done
  81 17:49:08 <sk>	806
  82 17:49:11 <GregNoel>	806
  83 17:49:26 <sk>	consensus 2.x p4, who?
  84 17:49:38 <garyo-home>	I"ll contact OP
  85 17:49:47 <GregNoel>	done
  86 17:49:53 <sk>	810:
  87 17:50:05 <sk>	consensus future p2
  88 17:50:12 <garyo-home>	good
  89 17:50:23 <GregNoel>	Gary, yes, would need both revamped downstream dependencies and something like DynamicSourceGenerator.
  90 17:50:27 <sk>	813:  consensus 2.x p3 Bill +dmd
  91 17:50:39 <GregNoel>	done
  92 17:50:48 <sk>	816:  consensus 2.x p3 +Easy
  93 17:50:56 <GregNoel>	done
  94 17:51:06 <sk>	824: research Ariane
  95 17:51:11 <GregNoel>	A note: Ariane Paola is her first name
  96 17:51:25 <sk>	(might be a stretch, but we'll kick it back if it seems outside her intended domain)
  97 17:51:29 <sk>	arianepaola, yt?
  98 17:51:50 <garyo-home>	Thanks, Greg.  And hi, Ariane Paola if you're online!
  99 17:52:12 <bdbaddog>	back now.. dang mac...
 100 17:52:25 <garyo-home>	np, we just assigned all the bugs to you. :-)
 101 17:52:35 <bdbaddog>	I saw.. ;)
 102 17:52:58 <bdbaddog>	re 804. anyone able to look at the taskmaster traces?
 103 17:53:09 <sk>	not me
 104 17:53:32 <GregNoel>	804: why? it has nothing to do with Taskmaster.
 105 17:53:44 <garyo-home>	804, we decided to revisit next time because we didn't get consensus yet
 106 17:53:53 <garyo-home>	... and we're trying to go fast tonight
 107 17:53:57 <bdbaddog>	o.k
 108 17:53:11 <GregNoel>	824: priority and milestone
 109 17:53:38 <sk>	824: for research?
 110 17:54:11 <garyo-home>	824: research Ariane Paola
 111 17:54:17 <GregNoel>	OK, done
 112 17:54:22 <sk>	824 done
 113 17:54:26 <sk>	843:  consensus future +qt
 114 17:54:42 <GregNoel>	priority?
 115 17:54:50 <sk>	p3
 116 17:54:51 <garyo-home>	843: Bill, if you have a builder at least put it on the wiki.
 117 17:55:04 <bdbaddog>	it's in previous clients code.. I'll ask if it's ok..
 118 17:55:11 <garyo-home>	I think someday we'll scrape all the builders off the wiki into a contrib folder or something.
 119 17:55:25 <garyo-home>	(or separate repo)
 120 17:55:22 <sk>	contrib folder ++
 121 17:55:46 <GregNoel>	priority?
 122 17:55:54 <bdbaddog>	p3 is fine
 123 17:55:55 <garyo-home>	p3?
 124 17:55:59 <GregNoel>	done
 125 17:56:09 <sk>	843:  future p3 +qt
 126 17:56:24 <GregNoel>	We're done with the backlog!
 127 17:56:33 <garyo-home>	Greg: go us!
 128 17:56:44 *	sk applauds wildly
 129 17:57:03 *	sk grins sheepishly at the other people on the shuttle
 130 17:57:07 *	garyo-home smiles
 131 17:56:24 <sk>	2384:  consensus 2.x p2 GregNoel
 132 17:56:29 <garyo-home>	2384: 2.x p2 greg
 133 17:56:35 <GregNoel>	done
 134 17:57:24 <sk>	2384:  done
 135 17:57:26 <GregNoel>	2400?
 136 17:57:42 <sk>	2400:  doc
 137 17:57:44 <garyo-home>	anytime, p3, doc, who?
 138 17:57:52 <sk>	bdbaddog, can you?  you're picking up a few others of those
 139 17:57:54 <GregNoel>	+Easy
 140 17:57:58 <garyo-home>	sure
 141 17:58:17 <sk>	2400:  anytime, p3, doc, bdbaddog +Easy
 142 17:58:20 <bdbaddog>	sure. Got little work this week so I have time.
 143 17:58:25 <GregNoel>	done
 144 17:58:26 <garyo-home>	thanks!
 145 17:58:43 <sk>	ta
 146 17:58:51 <garyo-home>	?
 147 17:59:09 <sk>	(archaic short form for "thanks")
 148 17:59:26 <garyo-home>	learn something new every day.
 149 17:59:43 <Jason_at_intel>	( thought it was thanks again)
 150 17:59:58 <garyo-home>	jason: that makes sense
 151 17:59:31 <GregNoel>	2401, consensus
 152 17:59:32 <sk>	2401:  anytime p2 GregNoel
 153 17:59:33 <garyo-home>	2401 anytime/p2/greg
 154 17:59:36 <GregNoel>	done
 155 17:59:37 <sk>	done
 156 18:00:05 <garyo-home>	2402 anytime/p4/greg
 157 18:00:08 <sk>	2402:  anytime p4 greg
 158 18:00:13 <bdbaddog>	+1
 159 18:00:16 <GregNoel>	done
 160 18:00:25 <sk>	done
 161 18:00:29 <garyo-home>	2403 anytime/p3/bill
 162 18:00:35 <sk>	2403:  anytime p3 bdbaddog
 163 18:00:36 <sk>	done
 164 18:00:41 <GregNoel>	done
 165 18:00:38 <garyo-home>	sk: how much time do you have left?
 166 18:00:58 <sk>	~15, let's defer the rest
 167 18:01:05 <GregNoel>	works
 168 18:01:11 <garyo-home>	(actually 2405 is consensus)
 169 18:01:39 <GregNoel>	2405: done
 170 18:01:14 <GregNoel>	1.3 then?
 171 18:01:16 <sk>	okay, re: 1.3
 172 18:01:38 <sk>	hold up is I don't have time to do a proper job on the integration
 173 18:01:48 <bdbaddog>	I've got time.
 174 18:01:59 <sk>	there's some design work that needs doing
 175 18:02:00 <garyo-home>	the vs_revamp stuff integration?
 176 18:02:11 <sk>	yes vs_revamp
 177 18:02:27 <sk>	Jason contributed the parts code and some really valuable insight into 64-bit / 32-bit support
 178 18:02:38 <garyo-home>	I'm trying to use vs_revamp at work w/o success yet, but I need to rip out all our old hacks before I know what's wrong
 179 18:02:41 <sk>	unfortunately, it's lain fallow long enough that I've forgotten the particulars
 180 18:02:43 <Jason_at_intel>	oh forgot to send you the updates
 181 18:02:56 <sk>	about what needs updating
 182 18:03:01 <bdbaddog>	Jason.. are the latest in parts/trunk?
 183 18:03:08 <Jason_at_intel>	Yes
 184 18:03:12 <garyo-home>	From what I could see Jason's work has definite value
 185 18:03:15 <sk>	i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me
 186 18:03:22 <sk>	but again don't remember the particulars
 187 18:03:27 <garyo-home>	but needs some merging (yes SK)
 188 18:03:27 <sk>	agreed re: value
 189 18:03:41 <GregNoel>	Let's focus on 1.3, please
 190 18:03:48 <Jason_at_intel>	I plan to revamp it again.. I have a general toolsetup object.. the hope it to make it easy to add any tool and new version of it
 191 18:03:50 <sk>	i tried to look for ~1 hour last night
 192 18:03:57 <sk>	through email and the current code state
 193 18:03:49 <garyo-home>	Steven, can you provide Bill some direction?
 194 18:04:13 <sk>	yeah, was trying to get to that last night
 195 18:04:28 <sk>	the problem is it's taking me too long to recreate what needs to be done
 196 18:04:36 <sk>	and i didn't make any good notes when i had it in mind... :-(
 197 18:04:36 <Jason_at_intel>	...>	i remember there are some parts of Jason's parts stuff that didn't feel completely "SConsy" to me
 198 18:04:45 <Jason_at_intel>	so I wanted to talk to you some time about that :-)
 199 18:04:57 <GregNoel>	Not now, please.
 200 18:05:15 <garyo-home>	I think the tool stuff is cool but needs to be separated out for this release
 201 18:05:17 <bdbaddog>	Greg: this is 1.3 related, vs_revamps supposed to go into 1.3
 202 18:05:33 <GregNoel>	But parts is not
 203 18:05:36 <sk>	unless we decide to release 1.3 as is without vs_revamp
 204 18:05:40 <garyo-home>	my point xactly
 205 18:05:46 <sk>	GregNoel:  the issue is that to do the 1.3 API right
 206 18:06:02 <sk>	we need to incorporate some aspects of the architectural work that Jason's done on parts
 207 18:06:09 <sk>	specifically the 32-bit / 64-bit cross-compilation
 208 18:06:30 <sk>	my main concern is that if we don't at least have a road map to the cross-compilation API
 209 18:06:04 <GregNoel>	I see.  But let's not get sidetracked to all of Parts.
 210 18:06:05 <Jason_at_intel>	I think teh current vs_revamp is a big improvement over the existing stuff
 211 18:06:30 <garyo-home>	that would scratch my itch at work big time.
 212 18:06:32 <Jason_at_intel>	however it 100% script .. the latest is missing the default logic
 213 18:06:39 <sk>	we could release something in 1.3 that boxes us into a corner
 214 18:07:03 <sk>	i'm okay with declaring actual 32-bit/64-bit cross-compilation out of scope to get 1.3 out the door
 215 18:07:12 <sk>	but i'm afraid if we don't know where we're going
 216 18:07:23 <sk>	1.3 will be a half-assed API that we'll have to support forever
 217 18:07:08 <bdbaddog>	Cross-compilation's not really mainstream is it?
 218 18:07:10 <Jason_at_intel>	have you look at the design notes on teh wiki for scons?
 219 18:07:25 <Jason_at_intel>	:-) wiki for Parts..
 220 18:07:32 <garyo-home>	sk: agreed.  Which is more important: vs_revamp, or 1.3 schedule?  Either do it right and delay, or leave it out.
 221 18:07:49 <sk>	garyo-home:  nicely put
 222 18:07:58 <bdbaddog>	is vs_revamp(today) worse than trunk now?
 223 18:08:01 *	sk wishes he were as concise as the rest of the world...
 224 18:08:14 <sk>	it apparently doesn't even work for gary
 225 18:08:18 <Jason_at_intel>	I think vs_revamp is better than current
 226 18:08:23 <sk>	modulo local mods to his configuration
 227 18:08:43 <garyo-home>	true, but I have lots of add-on junk to find SDKs and stuff, probably conflicting w/ vs_revamp doing it correctly.
 228 18:09:04 <bdbaddog>	Gary do you have time to resolve the issues in your environment with vs_revamp in the near term?
 229 18:09:07 <garyo-home>	It does find the right compiler/linker, I just get link errors.
 230 18:09:12 <garyo-home>	I will try hard to do it this wk.
 231 18:09:28 <garyo-home>	Or early next.
 232 18:10:10 <garyo-home>	I do have a problem though that I have some old branches that still need to build, will need an old scons version to use them.
 233 18:10:04 <bdbaddog>	Can you extract your logic so we can resolve the issue without your  whole build?
 234 18:10:31 <garyo-home>	bdbaddog: I wish I could, it's all tangled up.
 235 18:10:35 <bdbaddog>	o.k.
 236 18:10:42 <GregNoel>	What I'm seeing is no freeze for 1.3 by this weekend, so I won't be able to use my upcoming gap for 1.3 to 2.0.  I've got other things to work on (the console view comes to mind) so the time won't be wasted.
 237 18:09:52 <sk>	bill and jason:
 238 18:10:02 <sk>	i have no meetings tomorrow during the day
 239 18:10:06 <sk>	actually, only one at 1:00
 240 18:10:24 <sk>	can we each set up times to meet via irc?
 241 18:10:30 <bdbaddog>	I only have a 3:45 meeting.
 242 18:10:43 <Jason_at_intel>	8:00 central for me.. any time after that
 243 18:10:56 <sk>	if so, I'll block out schedule time to meet for some real-time pair-investigation of what to do w/vs_revamp
 244 18:11:08 <bdbaddog>	cool. - lunch of course.
 245 18:11:13 <Jason_at_intel>	cool
 246 18:11:28 <garyo-home>	wait, when?
 247 18:11:29 <Jason_at_intel>	I be online irc after meeting then.. or wait for e-mail from you
 248 18:11:38 <sk>	okay
 249 18:11:43 <sk>	bill, you want to come to google for ftf?
 250 18:11:54 <bdbaddog>	SK; sure.
 251 18:12:03 <sk>	whatever's easiest
 252 18:12:10 <bdbaddog>	SK: I'll be in MV tomorrow so that's easy for me.
 253 18:12:24 <garyo-home>	Greg: I think you're right, it's too bad though.
 254 18:12:30 <garyo-home>	Your time is valuable.
 255 18:12:50 <sk>	big agreement with that
 256 18:13:07 <Jason_at_intel>	I second that
 257 18:13:16 <bdbaddog>	Being the eternal optimist, if we can resolve what needs doing tomorrow, it could be done by friday.
 258 18:13:17 <garyo-home>	Greg: could you do the 1.3->2.0 stuff on a branch??
 259 18:13:43 *	sk likes the branch idea, if that works
 260 18:13:49 <GregNoel>	No.  It's massive changes; it needs to be done on the trunk.  No merges after it's done.
 261 18:14:14 <GregNoel>	Probably over 30% of the code lines will be touched.
 262 18:14:28 <garyo-home>	Greg: I understand, just did that on my work codebase.
 263 18:14:59 <garyo-home>	ok, let's see where we can get soon, but Greg I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
 264 18:13:42 <garyo-home>	bdbaddog: I will see if I can get any insight into my issues ASAP.
 265 18:13:32 <sk>	jason, can you irc 11:00 PDT / 13:00 CDT ?
 266 18:13:48 <Jason_at_intel>	yes
 267 18:15:05 <sk>	okay, i'll try to prep for tomorrow
 268 18:15:14 <garyo-home>	ditto
 269 18:15:19 <sk>	bill, bring your laptop, you can irc in from the guest wifi
 270 18:15:34 <sk>	and we can break at some appropriate time to grab lunch
 271 18:15:55 <garyo-home>	I'll try to hang out on irc tomorrow too
 272 18:16:00 <bdbaddog>	SK: will do
 273 18:16:05 <bdbaddog>	SK: 11am
 274 18:16:09 <sk>	yes
 275 18:16:05 <sk>	shuttle stop in ~1 minute
 276 18:16:23 <sk>	excellent work folks, many thanks
 277 18:16:26 <Jason_at_intel>	great see you tomorrow then
 278 18:16:32 <sk>	tomorrow
 279 18:16:39 <sk>	Jason_at_intel:  you're CDT?
 280 18:16:59 <Jason_at_intel>	yes.. IL
 281 18:17:14 <Jason_at_intel>	else i would stop by google
 282 18:17:28 <garyo-home>	yeah, me too except wrong coast :-)
 283 18:16:34 <GregNoel>	Two weeks for next meeting?
 284 18:16:40 <garyo-home>	good for me
 285 18:16:52 <sk>	two weeks next meeting
 286 18:17:12 <sk>	pretty amazing to have all the backlog cleared...
 287 18:17:28 <bdbaddog>	sk: Agreed Good work by All
 288 18:17:48 <garyo-home>	ok, see you on irc tmw
 289 18:17:54 *	GregNoel brb, somebody at door
 290 18:18:01 <sk>	GregNoel:  many, many thanks for being the main driver for organizing and keeping all of this categorization on task over the last year
 291 18:18:22 <sk>	i have little doubt that we wouldn't have gotten this taken care of without you!
 292 18:18:37 <garyo-home>	sk: well said.
 293 18:19:39 <bdbaddog>	sk: Cheers for Greg!
 294 18:20:17 <Jason_at_intel>	agreed
 295 18:21:24 *	GregNoel has been marked as being away
 296 18:26:55 <garyo-home>	ok, bye 4 now
 297 18:27:04 *	garyo-home has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]")
 298 18:27:17 *	Jason_at_intel has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]")
 299 18:29:13 <bdbaddog>	bye
 300 18:29:18 *	bdbaddog has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042315]")
 301 18:42:45 *	sk has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
 302 

BugParty/IrcLog2009-04-29 (last edited 2009-05-01 04:47:23 by ip68-7-77-81)